I wasn't meeting Sam until late afternoon, so once again I decided to head to Cubbon Park for a bit for some morning relaxation; although not without stopping to get some breakfast first! I saw a nice desolated area away from where some people were and sat up by a tree to keep myself in the shade. I used this rare time of some outdoor solitude to start doing some sketching.
After a while, quite a few young school children accompanied by a few of their teachers occupied a space nearby me, but initially did not pay me any mind. Eventually though, me drawing did catch the attention of one of the teachers who praised my drawing in its current state. Being the ever so inquisitive person (much like most people in India from my experience), he then proceeded to ask me questions about myself. I politely answered and then asked him about himself; he's a pastor called David.
Once he felt comfortable with me, he decided to sit by me still intrigued with me. I had my ukulele with me (I always did in India) and naturally he asked if I could demonstrate it. I didn't mind so I played him a few chords and told him about the instrument. After a while, the formalities of getting to know one another eventually turned in to a conversation about religion - christianity to be specific. I knew there was a potential for this happening as he is a pastor of course, although, when religion is usually brought up in conversation in India, it is soon quelled once I inform the person that I am an atheist and do not belong to any religion. Me being an atheist only seemed to intrigue David more, though.
Like any devout christian would I imagine, he asked why I did not believe in his god (In hindsight, I wish I would have said that he too is an atheist about other gods and I just go one god further; how he feels about the existence of, say Zeus, is how I feel about the existence of Jehovah). I simply told him that I believe that man created god(s); perhaps initially to explain the creation of this planet and life on it, which, as primitive beings as they were thousands of years ago, would have found comfort in that. Although men eventually used god(s) to exploit the gullible and to instill fear in to them for power and for wealth. I also quoted Alan Moore's character Sir William Gull (otherwise known as Jack the Ripper in his depiction) in his graphic novel From Hell - "The one place god inarguably exists is in our minds...", which I think to be true.
He was baffled by what I said as, of course, this contradicted his beliefs. He asked me if I could be a father to my father. Biologically no, I told him to state the obvious. And he used that answer to refute what I said - a straw man fallacy I think it's called. There are children who have had to and are looking after their father, perhaps due to a tragic accident or illness, so sentimentally, yes, someone could be a father to their father. This seemed irrelevant to my reasoning though.
He went on to tell me about his past; he was in a bad place and very depressed. One night he went to jump off a bridge to commit suicide, but was stopped by what he recalls was the voice of god telling him not to as he is destined for great things. It was then that he became a christian. Of course, I am in no position to refute David's experience as I can not possibly know for certain what one experiences, even if the skeptic in me thinks a delusional or hallucinatory one; personal anecdotes can often be unreliable. I can theorise that perhaps his conscience had gotten the better of him, and due to his sever depression, he wanted to find meaning in life as well as comfort; it's quite common for people who are in a "bad place" to turn to religion to find purpose in their lives. I didn't tell him this though as for 1) he would still have said that god spoke to him and 2) I like to live and let live. If people want to believe in god(s) and base their entire life around them, then so be it. It doesn't bother me too much that religions still exist as, at least in my experience, religious people have been very pleasant to me and have not proselytised me - although David did seem really close to try doing that! But I wrote it off as him just simply asking questions leading to discussions. Of course I'm aware that wars and conflicts have been caused by religions, but extremists are very much the minority in religious groups. So my second point still stands.
Speaking of finding purpose in life, he did actually ask what it is I do without religion. I went on to tell him that I too have suffered from depression, but do not need religion to find purpose or meaning or happiness in life; I can find solace in the beauty of nature, my experiences and endeavors in life, and my encounters and interactions with people from all walks in life - hence me wanting to travel. I also told him I can be a good person without trying adhere to a god in order to get a place reserved for me in afterlife (if such a thing exists!). I'm a kind, good-natured and caring person because I am; my happiness is making other people happy too. Simply, I'm a humanitarian and a I'm humanist.
He respected my answers and told me he liked me. I would just like to add that despite our differences of beliefs, we discussed this touchy subject politely and calmly. I found David to be a very pleasant man and quite enjoyed our discussion. Anyway, I guess he too could see that this religious debate would end in stalemate and we talked about other things as well.
During our conversations, his wife, Mary, brought over some refreshments and bananas whilst I went on to ask him about the children. He told me that they are children who reside in slum areas and he helps to educate them, hoping that when they are older they will have a happy and prosperous life. I disliked what he said next about also teaching them about the word of god and, well, basically indoctrinating them in to christianity, which I disagree with. He believes that he is doing gods work and it is by gods grace that these children will lead good lives. I say it's by the grace of good and caring people myself. These teachers and their parents can better the children's lives; not god(s). I thought god doesn't intervene with us humans anyway? Don't christians always say that god doesn't stop suffering because he has plan? Or that he works in mysterious ways (vague answers, eh)? If that's the case, then is it not a waste of time to pray to him (or her) for the good welfare and happiness of people? I didn't actually ask any of these questions to David. I just got in to a slight train of thought as I typed this. If a christian reads this then perhaps they can answer.
Eventually it got to lunchtime and David and his colleagues asked me to join them and the children for lunch. I wasn't too hungry but took them up on their offer anyway. They placed down some blankets on the grass for the children and us to sit on whilst we ate. We had some chicken curry, rice and onion salad. It was very nice! Whilst eating, I got talking to a chap called Peter (notice the similarities with their names?) who was also a very nice man that also liked to travel. He's very fond of music too and knew right away what my instrument was! He asked me to play a song for him and the children and I happily obliged. I performed (probably terribly) Somewhere Over the Rainbow/What a Wonderful World by Israel Kamakawiwo'ole for them. Peter actually knew the songs and sang quietly with me while the children gathered around and listened. One child even started tapping to give a sound of a drum. For my first little performance in front of more than one or two people, it went quite well and I was very happy when they all applauded me after.
The children were curious about my uke and wanted to have a go, so I let them play with it for a little while whilst I talked with Peter and the others. A short while later, they had to leave. I said a fond farewell to them all and David gave me his e-mail address and asked me to attend their church on Sunday. I would have gone actually, but I would be heading back to England that day.
It had been a lovely morning and afternoon, and I very much enjoyed my company that day. Even though we may have very differing opinions and beliefs, we still got on very well; a person's religion, ethnic, culture and nationality are not things I care to take in to account when befriending someone.
He went on to tell me about his past; he was in a bad place and very depressed. One night he went to jump off a bridge to commit suicide, but was stopped by what he recalls was the voice of god telling him not to as he is destined for great things. It was then that he became a christian. Of course, I am in no position to refute David's experience as I can not possibly know for certain what one experiences, even if the skeptic in me thinks a delusional or hallucinatory one; personal anecdotes can often be unreliable. I can theorise that perhaps his conscience had gotten the better of him, and due to his sever depression, he wanted to find meaning in life as well as comfort; it's quite common for people who are in a "bad place" to turn to religion to find purpose in their lives. I didn't tell him this though as for 1) he would still have said that god spoke to him and 2) I like to live and let live. If people want to believe in god(s) and base their entire life around them, then so be it. It doesn't bother me too much that religions still exist as, at least in my experience, religious people have been very pleasant to me and have not proselytised me - although David did seem really close to try doing that! But I wrote it off as him just simply asking questions leading to discussions. Of course I'm aware that wars and conflicts have been caused by religions, but extremists are very much the minority in religious groups. So my second point still stands.
Speaking of finding purpose in life, he did actually ask what it is I do without religion. I went on to tell him that I too have suffered from depression, but do not need religion to find purpose or meaning or happiness in life; I can find solace in the beauty of nature, my experiences and endeavors in life, and my encounters and interactions with people from all walks in life - hence me wanting to travel. I also told him I can be a good person without trying adhere to a god in order to get a place reserved for me in afterlife (if such a thing exists!). I'm a kind, good-natured and caring person because I am; my happiness is making other people happy too. Simply, I'm a humanitarian and a I'm humanist.
He respected my answers and told me he liked me. I would just like to add that despite our differences of beliefs, we discussed this touchy subject politely and calmly. I found David to be a very pleasant man and quite enjoyed our discussion. Anyway, I guess he too could see that this religious debate would end in stalemate and we talked about other things as well.
During our conversations, his wife, Mary, brought over some refreshments and bananas whilst I went on to ask him about the children. He told me that they are children who reside in slum areas and he helps to educate them, hoping that when they are older they will have a happy and prosperous life. I disliked what he said next about also teaching them about the word of god and, well, basically indoctrinating them in to christianity, which I disagree with. He believes that he is doing gods work and it is by gods grace that these children will lead good lives. I say it's by the grace of good and caring people myself. These teachers and their parents can better the children's lives; not god(s). I thought god doesn't intervene with us humans anyway? Don't christians always say that god doesn't stop suffering because he has plan? Or that he works in mysterious ways (vague answers, eh)? If that's the case, then is it not a waste of time to pray to him (or her) for the good welfare and happiness of people? I didn't actually ask any of these questions to David. I just got in to a slight train of thought as I typed this. If a christian reads this then perhaps they can answer.
Eventually it got to lunchtime and David and his colleagues asked me to join them and the children for lunch. I wasn't too hungry but took them up on their offer anyway. They placed down some blankets on the grass for the children and us to sit on whilst we ate. We had some chicken curry, rice and onion salad. It was very nice! Whilst eating, I got talking to a chap called Peter (notice the similarities with their names?) who was also a very nice man that also liked to travel. He's very fond of music too and knew right away what my instrument was! He asked me to play a song for him and the children and I happily obliged. I performed (probably terribly) Somewhere Over the Rainbow/What a Wonderful World by Israel Kamakawiwo'ole for them. Peter actually knew the songs and sang quietly with me while the children gathered around and listened. One child even started tapping to give a sound of a drum. For my first little performance in front of more than one or two people, it went quite well and I was very happy when they all applauded me after.
The children were curious about my uke and wanted to have a go, so I let them play with it for a little while whilst I talked with Peter and the others. A short while later, they had to leave. I said a fond farewell to them all and David gave me his e-mail address and asked me to attend their church on Sunday. I would have gone actually, but I would be heading back to England that day.
It had been a lovely morning and afternoon, and I very much enjoyed my company that day. Even though we may have very differing opinions and beliefs, we still got on very well; a person's religion, ethnic, culture and nationality are not things I care to take in to account when befriending someone.
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